p_n_elrod: Fan fic - sí! Public Domain

P. N. Elrod (

p_n_elrod) wrote,
@ 2006-09-17 19:10:00

Current location:	BIC
Current mood:	amused
Current music:	Miracle Symphony by Hayden is on the radio
Entry tags:	dracula, fan fiction, kolchak, public domain, quincey morris

Fan fic - sí! Public Domain - sí-sí-sí!!!

*sigh*

Once more I have stumbled across someone accusing me of being some sort of a literary hypocrite.

I've gone into detail on this on my website, but there's a few out there who've missed it.

Once and for all, I AM NOT ANTI-FAN FICTION!!!

I'll rinse and repeat if needed, but I'm optimistic that it will go forth and do no harm.

The only fan fiction I have a problem with is the unauthorized use of MY characters, and that's all.  Most people get that and respect it, and I want to throw a great big ice cream party for them all, I love you, I love you, muah-muah-muah!

I am protective of the characters because I'm figuring fic writers are hoping to eventually get in the pro leagues. If they get themselves messed up by a copyright infringement suit then NO legit publisher or agent will have anything to do with 'em. Harsh, but true.

I love you guys! I don't want you getting into trouble!

Now--lemme clarify the whole QUINCEY MORRIS THING--which is apparently why some people think I'm a hypocrite: I wrote a Dracula "fan fiction" and got it published.

The copyright on Dracula has expired.  I know it--the publishers know it. Now you do, too!

Dracula and anything/anyone else in Stoker's book is in something called The Public Domain. This is a cool thing. Learn about it. Enjoy.

When a work is in the public domain it means anyone can write a story using that universe and it is TOTALLY OKAY!

Because it is in public domain any character from the original Dracula is open for use! I do not own the copyright to Stoker's Quincey any more than I do for Shakespeare's Hamlet.

A lot of other writers like Saberhagen, Kiraly, Joss Whedon, Coppola along with the contributors to my Dracula's London collection, the Dracula: Prince of Darkness collection, comic books, reprint collections and five zillion movie makers have done the same thing.

We all get that public domain thing and love it. You are most welcome to join the club!!

Public domain is the bestest, most wonderfulest thing for fan fiction writers. They can play with public domain things ALL they want and it's totally cool!

The only characters you can't use are the ones original to my particular Quincey Morris book, like Lady Bertrice or Lord Burce, because they're inventions I grafted into the Stoker story.

Anyone that Stoker made up is totally free and clear though.  Take it and run, graft in your own characters, have fun like I did!

And finally--RE the Kolchak: The Nightstalker stories I've done: I was contacted by the editor who has the copyright holder's (Jeff Rice) permission. I got paid to write a story, and Mr. Rice gets paid for the use of his character. It's totally allowed and I LOVE him for letting others play in his backyard.

The Stepping Through the Stargate book and other collections I've tribbed to are called "critical essays."  They are not fan fiction. A critical essay is --oh, hell, look it up. I can assure you that it is covered by something called "fair use." Fair use covers book reviews, essays, and using brief quotes from a work.  That, too, is perfectly legal.

Those who are swift to call people names, please--do your research first before you lay down a load of judgment on someone. Google and Wikipedia are your very good and helpful friends. They prevent blog-in-mouth syndrome.

Hopefully this covers it. I'd say I ain't anti-fanfic again, but it's either sunk in or not and I'd really rather be doing something else...like learning to juggle.

But I'm not finished organizing that danged hall closet yet. :grumble-grumble-snort:

(Post a new comment)

	lesleykajira 2006-09-18 12:50 am UTC (link)
	As someone who wants to be a writer, these rants are actually helpful. Thank you! (Reply to this)(Thread)

	p_n_elrod 2006-09-18 03:21 pm UTC (link)
	Eeek-- not a rant--I am amused. I've been getting this for a few years now ever since I asked Fanfition dot net to include me out. Don't know why some people fuss about it so much. Mine is a very, very tiny little universe and there are so many others out there to play in. Or (gasp) one can invent one's own! What an idea! Love your snarly bunny!! (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

rambling!

lesleykajira
2006-09-18 08:39 pm UTC (link)

i learned last November that plot bunnies are evil and, though scarce and shy when you first start writing, multiply into nearly unmanageable numbers while writing.

i've written fanfiction once (as in, one complete story), and i have read a great deal of it. It's a tricky thing to deal with.

i was watching cable on my mother's TV the other night, and saw a commercial for a squishy modeling-toy called "Floam". The kids in the commercial were happily pressing it against their toy castles and their own faces, and one kid used Floam to build a dinosaur out of his wooden skeleton of a dinosaur.

i think fanfiction is a bit like that; you're taking the bare-boned impressions of the characters as YOU perceive them from someone else's writing, then fleshing them out into a story of your own design.

Well, i thought to myself, if you are doing SO much work to make your story, and the character is really only your opinion of someone else's, why not just rename it, give it some depth on your own, a new backstory, and ...tada! New, original character.

But maybe i just like Floam too much.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

Re: rambling!

p_n_elrod
2006-09-19 12:22 am UTC (link)

Just a kindly suggestion...start capitalizing the personal pronoun if you want others to take you seriously. It's not an Ego Thing, just a good grammar habit to form.

And for those who haven't heard, I'm thinking a good 80% of fic could be 200% improved if the writers read and used The Elements of Style by Strunk and White.

Heh--found my copy while cleaning that hall closet. That damn dead space alien was sitting on it. Bleah!

I'll clean it off and put it on the desk where it belongs. The book, that is. The dead space alien's out in the trash.

That'll teach him to put his freakin' probes up MY nose!

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

(Deleted post)

	Re: rambling! p_n_elrod 2006-10-02 01:01 am UTC (link)
	YAY!!! You go, girl! (Reply to this)(Parent)

	coyotecc 2006-09-20 09:14 am UTC (link)
	I actually put an original story on fanfiction dot net and i got diddly squat replies:( Oh woe is me:) (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	p_n_elrod 2006-09-20 02:04 pm UTC (link)
	Try absolutewrite-dot-com, they have a feedback forum. (Reply to this)(Parent)

rem_sama
2006-09-18 03:14 am UTC (link)

I write fanfiction myself, and I remember seeing your name amongst the authors who didn't want their characters to be used. I can totally understand. ^^ Especially considering the quality and, erm...questionable and laughable content in some of them. I don't want to sound full of myself, but I'd like to think that people writing fanfics would have more respect for the characters and storylines.

But that's just my personal beef. >.> Most of what I write stems from source material from places like Japan, where the copyright laws are much more loose. I think it's really considerate of you to be looking out for future authors, so calling you a hypocrite is pretty much ridiculous. :/

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	p_n_elrod 2006-09-18 03:23 pm UTC (link)
	YOU get the first dish of ice cream and all the seconds you want and I will serve it myself! Thank you for your 'tude! (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	rem_sama 2006-09-18 07:19 pm UTC (link)
	Aaaah, ice cream. Perfect for this weather. ♥ You are welcome. ^_^ (Reply to this)(Parent)

	crazymadjo 2006-09-18 04:44 am UTC (link)
	Geez, Pat. Why are you so anti-fanfic? ducks, runs (Reply to this)(Thread)

	p_n_elrod 2006-09-18 03:24 pm UTC (link)
	You get some ice cream anyway, 'cause u is wun a muh buds. :snorple: (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	crazymadjo 2006-09-18 03:27 pm UTC (link)
	:-) (Reply to this)(Parent)

coyotecc
2006-09-18 10:10 am UTC (link)

Wow, that was definitive. I always thought fan fiction was one way to get one male charcater and one female charcater together in the writers mind that would never actually happen in literary life. Lord of the rings and such blah blah.

But the real writers who use fan fiction for a launching off point because they have problems with creating charcaters i have no problem with. Its the ones who slander it and rip it to shreds cause after they do that you have completely lost what you loved in the first place.

Good luck with that closet:)

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	p_n_elrod 2006-09-18 03:28 pm UTC (link)
	Thank you! What flavor ice cream would you like? Some just want to play with forbidden fruit, and they don't like it when I say no, please don't. But there's LOTS and LOTS of other writers who don't mind having their fruit fondled! (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	coyotecc 2006-09-18 03:31 pm UTC (link)
	I love it when i get my stuff criticized, because as long as its constructive. Its all good and whats good cant be that bad:) (Reply to this)(Parent)

	coyotecc 2006-09-18 03:33 pm UTC (link)
	Ice cream huh? I know i forgot something when i first read that reply...umm.....Vanilla or Mint Choc Chip whatever is at hand:) (btw what are vampire authors favourite ice cream?) (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	p_n_elrod 2006-09-18 04:02 pm UTC (link)
	I don't know what the others like, but I'm rather fond of caramel topping on just anything. Especially if it's smeared all over General Jack O'Neill... (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	coyotecc 2006-09-18 04:25 pm UTC (link)
	With or without a sprinkles? :) (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	p_n_elrod 2006-09-18 11:30 pm UTC (link)
	Yeah, but he can bring his own. Forget the caramel topping--I'mgoing for the hardcore stuff....BUTTERSCOTCH!! (Reply to this)(Parent)

	outtamyskull 2006-09-18 11:32 am UTC (link)
	Milady, If you really expect the average humanoid to parse the sense out of that you have a much higher opionion of the food chains so called highest ranking critter than I. (Reply to this)(Thread)

p_n_elrod
2006-09-18 03:56 pm UTC (link)

LOL!

Well, I just like to think that people are BETTER than they are and tend to give the benefit of a doubt.

Unless some are just terminally, willfully stupid.

Not naming names, but a self-published writer who copied whole segments of my website and pasted them onto her own as her own work comes to mind.

She took the stuff down when asked, (I pointed out that professional writers don't DO that sort of thing) but instead of owning up and saying "Oops, that was wrong, won't do it again, sorry" she said someone ELSE did that without her knowledge. Ooooooo-kay.

I am a bit surprised by the "Pat's a hypocrite" sing-song, because one of the themes throughout my books is taking responsibility for one's actions and dealing with the consequences even if you don't like it. If I didn't go with that myself in my own life then they'd have a perfect right to call me names and I'd have to hush up.

But I respect copyright and don't write fic--I don't tell others to stop, just ask juliefortune!

It's like smoking. You wanna smoke--go ahead, I don't care--just not in my house. That's all!

But what I hear on the Quincey Thing is that they think that book was fan fiction.

Huh-wha?

Once again--no one owns Dracula or any of Stoker's characters. They're free range--ANYONE can write a Dracula story.

While there IS a Dracula fandom--there is no such thing as unauthorized Dracula fan fiction because the copyright has lapsed. You wanna write a story where Quincey and Drac are giving each other blow jobs until their brains implode, have at it. They are not my characters, nor are they owned by any of Stoker's descendants.

Even now I'm reading Fred Saberhagen's A Coldness in the Blood and Dracula is the main character.

BUT--in this book his name is "Mr. Maule."

While anyone can write Dracula as Dracula or using any name you like, you can't use the name "Mr. Maule" because Fred made that up and it's HIS, and besides, he's a really, really NICE, cool man and let's all just respect the dude. :)

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

juliefortune
2006-09-18 04:30 pm UTC (link)

I can attest to the fact that Ms. Pat doesn't tell me to stop writing fanfic, bless her.

And it's bizarre that someone would point to the Dracula books (and, presumably, the anthology that I contributed to as well) to talk about this issue. Like you, I guess some people just don't understand the basics of copyright at all, or the fact that there are public domain characters. Or that you can be licensed to write in the 'verse, if someone *does* own the copyrights.

Dunno. My sympathies, Pat. Now, quit hogging the ice cream, and scoop me out some mint choc chip.

With a side of Daniel.

-- J.

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	p_n_elrod 2006-09-18 04:47 pm UTC (link)
	Oh, sweetie--you get your own freakin TUB of mint choca... And you and Danny-boy can eat it in my hot tub out back. I'll just go shopping for a few days or so until you're done. (Reply to this)(Parent)

	aetas_lupus 2006-09-18 04:27 pm UTC (link)
	I completely agree and never doubt yourself for saying things like this twice or three times as the case may be, dryly humans have little to no sense these days... Those of us that do are either the acception to the rule or not completely human to begin with. (Reply to this)(Thread)

	p_n_elrod 2006-09-18 04:48 pm UTC (link)
	I'm gonna remember what you wrote the next time someone calls me a name and wonders why I'm suddenly smiling. Heeee! (Reply to this)(Parent)

bevinbaka
2006-09-18 05:50 pm UTC (link)

I've really never understood the sense of entitlement most fanfic authors (and by this, I'm talking largely of the pool in the pit of voles known as fanfiction dot net) seem to have. I've written my share of the stuff, don't get me wrong, and I enjoy a well-written story when I can find one, but I have absolutely no gripe with anyone who says they don't want their worlds played in.

In theory, I don't mind the idea of fanfiction, but the problem is, a lot of the time these authors don't want to write about these characters, they want to write about someone completely different wearing the characters' skins and inhabiting their world. At that point they might as well just change the names and call it original fiction, since that's essentially what it is. And then they're stunned when the copyright owners declare that they don't want their works used that way and scream to the heavens about how unfair it is when to the best of my knowledge there's nothing in the constitution (or any online equivilent) that says "you have the right as an amateur unpublished writer to take anyone else's creation and do anything you like to it or the characters contained therein, so long as you state at the very begining that you don't own it in the first place, as that absolves you of any copyright infringement".

Published authors have no obligation to let others play in their worlds, and given the quality of the vast majority of fanfiction out there, I could hardly blame anyone for not wanting their creations put through that nonsense. (Flemming on Barret is really not a mental image I need wedged in my brain, thanks so much.)

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p_n_elrod
2006-09-18 06:04 pm UTC (link)

Fleming on Barrett? ROTF! As-if. After I've been dead for 50+ years or whatever it is now, then all my stuff will be public domain and fic writers can do whatever they like. (Please, no one take that as permission to hire a hit man to take me out. You still have a long wait ahead.)

Thank you for your enlightened view!

I used to read fic--back before we had the Internet!--and stopped because much of it was as you described, so terribly distorted as to be unrecognizable. So I stopped reading, just dipping in now and then to see if things had improved.

How's THIS for coincidence? The Wall Street Journal on line has a piece on fan fic & the writers:

http://online.wsj.com/public/article/SB115836001321164886-GZsZGW_ngbeAjqwMADJDX2w0frg_20070916.html?mod=blogs

But before you go opening that old fic file please keep in mind that those fic writers who landed book contracts very likely did so for their own ORIGINAL stuff that they made up. Unless you get a work-for-hire job from the copyright owners of say, House or Lost, what they sold wasn't fic.

The Jane Austin lady--well, that's public domain again! Yay!

These exceptions are special cases, and it doesn't mean you can't do the same thing, but please, everyone just learn the rules. If a writer opts out of the fic party, just respect their views and move on.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

bevinbaka
2006-09-18 09:55 pm UTC (link)

That was an interesting article, I'm rather surprised at the changing mindset some companies have about fanworks. And I'm certain the people who got book deals did so with their own ideas, and they're probably very talented writers. Good for them, we should all be so fortunate.

And yeah, I still don't get the people who whine when their favorite author asks people not to write fanfiction of their works, or at least, not to publish it online (I guess no one will ever really know if someone writes a bunch of Anne McCaffrey stories if they never post them anywhere). Not only are the characters the writer's creations, they're their livelihoods, too. They shouldn't be pressured or guilted into letting other people mess with them if they don't want to, they're the ones who created everything. It just seems like common courtesy and respect for someone whose work you admire. I have my own projects and I wouldn't feel comfortable letting other people play with them; it seems like most people don't really respect the original stuff, they just want to leave their muddy footprints on everything. Not ALL of them, I've read some very, very good fanfiction, but by and large, most of it isn't.

(PS-- You don't mind if a character is semi-named after one of yours as an homage, right? It's just a first name, but back when I named her I never really thought I'd get the opportunity to talk to you and now that I have I guess I wanted to ask. Just to be sure.)

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p_n_elrod
2006-09-18 11:29 pm UTC (link)

There's no copyright on a name unless it's a Trademark Thing like "Mickey Mouse" or "Ronald McDonald."

(Actually, when I was a CSR for some supply company I sold stuff to a McDonald's manager named Ronald McDonald. He was grateful when I didn't laugh.)

Names are a fun thing for me, sometimes they come easy, other times I have to just put the phone book away 'cause the character rejects everything I pick.

I've seen postings elsewhere discussing the naming of characters and sometimes a few just have to not be used in one's original stuff, Buffy and Aragorn come to mind.

Anyone wanna bet there's Buffy-LOTR fic out there?

Please--I don't want no link to it! Bwah!

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bevinbaka
2006-09-19 03:21 am UTC (link)

I can pretty much guarantee there's a Buffy-LOTR fic out there-- you could probably paste the titles of any TV show, movie, book, videogame or comic on the wall, throw darts, and find fics written for any combination you could make.

And I figured you wouldn't mind, I just wanted to check. Vampires named Jack aren't all *that* common and I get nervous that I'm stepping on someone's toes. And I tried to come up with another name for her, but she just wanted to be Jack, so Jack it was.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	p_n_elrod 2006-09-19 03:26 am UTC (link)
	Maybe a different spelling? :) I've seen Jac and Jaq used for ladies. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	bevinbaka 2006-09-19 06:32 pm UTC (link)
	Is that a hint? ;) Sure, I can change it, she'll still have her personality minus a 'k'. (Reply to this)(Parent)

	coyotecc 2006-09-19 03:31 pm UTC (link)
	Would you ever write for a stargate anthology? :) (Reply to this)(Thread)

p_n_elrod
2006-09-19 04:35 pm UTC (link)

Absolutely yes!!....providing it was through the properly liscensed venue that eventually leads back to MGM. That's what fanfic writer Julie Fortune did--she tracked the Stargate novels to a publisher in Britain and thus got a paying job for her most excellent Sacrifice Moon.

I'd ask if lunch with Ricard Dean Anderson could be arranged as part of the deal.

I'm hoping he'd teach me to juggle.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	coyotecc 2006-09-19 04:56 pm UTC (link)
	What do u think of ben browder?:) (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	p_n_elrod 2006-09-19 05:08 pm UTC (link)
	Whose balls d'ya think I'm wanting to juggle with??? (Yes, I ended a sentence with a preposition, but I'm pre-coffee.) (Reply to this)(Parent)

O.o Sheesh
(Anonymous)
2006-09-21 01:08 pm UTC (link)

Oy, who are these people?? How can they complain when a writer doesn't want the stuff that THEY made, being used by people they don't know and in possibly questionable ways? *shudders at pron* I've viewed fantiction.net a few times, but rarely do I find anything worthy of reading. I'm more partial to the stuff on...on...gah, my brain pooped out. Ah! quizilla.com. It began as a quiz site, but now has a lot of fiction and fanfiction on it too. Most of the stuff on it is by teenagers. Oh - completely different topic here, hope you don't mind. There's a song available for (legally) free download at amazon.com, titled 'Sweet Salvation' by Bernadette Seacrest and the Yes Men. Every time I listen to it I can just picture Bobbie singing at Lady Crymsyn. Can't remember if I posted about it before or not, so, sorry if it's a repeat. -Da White Wolffie

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Re: O.o Sheesh

p_n_elrod
2006-09-21 01:30 pm UTC (link)

I'll have to ask Rachel if she's got it on her I-pod. I'm still on dialup (it works for me) and it takes forever to download stuff. Bobbi might like it; I nearly always listen to classical or that kind of sweet-hot instrumental midnight jazz.

People will either get the copyright thing or choose ignore it. I'm hoping the nicer ones will get it.

Being called names is one thing, one innocent noted in her blog that I was a big fat bitch--and I'm not arguing THAT. But calling me a hypocrite was just wrong. It only happened because the dearheart doesn't understand either copyright OR public domain. I think she might be happier if she did.

;>)

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	(Anonymous) 2007-03-06 06:25 pm UTC (link)
	I dunno if you take questions but does Public Domain transfer over to foreign shows or books. Things like anime or manga. More specifically, would Ai no Kusabi be considered public domain? (Reply to this)(Thread)

Re: O.o Sheesh

p_n_elrod
2007-03-06 08:17 pm UTC (link)

Domestic or foreign, *anything* with "copyright" and a name of a person or company next to it is not public domain. Look in the front of every book you own and you'll find it, ditto for films.

This includes anime and manga properties. Some writers don't mind infringement, but as stated I am not in their number.

I looked up what you named and found this fic site's disclaimer--look familiar?

"Disclaimer: Ai no Kusabi is the property of Rieko Yoshihara and June. I'm taking and using the world and its characters without permission. No profit and copyright infringement is intended. What I intend here is some good popularization. So please don't sue."

Such disclaimers are completely worthless in court. It clearly declares that the person behind it is fully aware they are violating another person's copyright--A.K.A. breaking the law.

The copyright owners can totally sue the fic writer. At the very least they can shut down the website by complaining to the server.

It DOESN'T MATTER that the ficcer isn't making money, it is still illegal. Lawyers get rich on people with legal blindspots.

Internet servers are alert about the copyright issue. They don't want to get sued, so if someone complains they take it down. Post stuff that belongs to someone else at your own peril.

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	Re: O.o Sheesh (Anonymous) 2007-03-07 04:09 pm UTC (link)
	That's what I thought but I wasn't sure because of the issue of doujinshi's. I know that a lot of japanese manga series do allow them to be sold, so it made me wonder.... Anyways thanks for the answer (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

Re: O.o Sheesh

p_n_elrod
2007-03-07 04:48 pm UTC (link)

https://cyberspace.ischool.utexas.edu/modules/five/1.php

The link deals with that issue.

You can read the whole thread from here:

https://cyberspace.ischool.utexas.edu/modules/five/1.php

which seems to be a university level introduction to copyright law, domestic and international.

Dang, where was this when I was starting out?

Page 4 should scare the heck out of most people:

(Here is a FAIR USE quote)

"For each case of copyright infringement, the infringer can be fined from $750 to $30,000. If the infringement was willful infringement (the person knew they were infringing and did it anyway), then the fine can go up to $150,000 for each act of infringement."

AAAAAAAAGH!

Of course this doesn't cover the fact that publishing is a very small village and that no legit house will ever buy anything from the infringer. Ever. Pen names won't save you. Editors, agents, and writers just LOVE to gossip over their chocolate martinis!

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	My feedback (Anonymous) 2007-06-03 06:49 pm UTC (link)
	good work... (Reply to this)(Parent)

Re: O.o Sheesh
(Anonymous)
2007-06-12 09:32 am UTC (link)

Or one can simply write about one's real life! Fanfiction isn't the only stuff that one can use to write "adventures" from! Some folks have real life adventures,..which can be turned into "stories from real life" or into fictionalized versions of those stories!!

Each of us has our own personal universe of stories from within ourselves,..based on our own experiences! Each of us has our own charactors within us just waiting to be written about!

(Reply to this)(Parent)

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